This article highlights a serious problem with electric vehicles which seems to have received little attention in the media.
EV Chargers To Be Separately Metered | NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT (wordpress.com)
How many electric vehicle enthusiasts know about this?
Smart chargers are key to a smart National Grid, especially V2G feature. This is a benefit to the EV owner, not a negative.
ReplyDeleteYou will also be aware that there is excess energy in the grid overnight, due to limitations in switching off generation and on again in time for the next peak, hence cheaper rate electricity between midnight and 4am (e.g. Octopus Go tariff).
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/case-study-uk-electric-vehicle-grid-v2g-charging
Do you not think it might be inconvenient if the grid was to switch off your charger because it needed to cut back on usage just when you needed to charge up your vehicle? Also if they can charge a much higher rate then you will not make the savings you were expecting. This has not been made clear to the public. It is obvious that if there is a massive uptake of EVs the grid will not be able to cope, especially if electricity is also the main source of heating homes as well. Electricity will have to be rationed and people will not like it.
ReplyDeleteIt might be obvious to you, but the National Grid are more confident.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero-stories/can-grid-cope-extra-demand-electric-cars
Petrol has been rationed only last year, so what is there to risk by transitioning to electricity?
Electric vehicles have not been around in large numbers for very long and so we don't know how the batteries will fare over six or seven years usage. They are still very expensive to buy and so this will have a serious impact on the second hand value of EVs. There is still a lot of concern about the distnace you will actually be able to go between charges, there are also concerns about the availability of sufficient public charging points. Many people will not be able to have a home charger so this will create a great inconvenience.
ReplyDeleteThe National Grid article you cite paints a very optimistic picture, but they are bound to because that is their business. Everyone knows that wind is not a constant and reliable source of energy, so to rely on more and more of it is asking for trouble. I admire your confidence, but don't say you weren't warned. South Australia and California have already had blackouts, we will not be immune. We should never put all our eggs in one basket.
EVs usual have battery warranties for 8 years or 100,000 miles. There are plenty of people who have them longer than that and due to the minimal moving parts, the cars are lasting much more than the traditional 100,000 miles! Because of their longevity and very low running costs, they are cheaper than ICE cars. The only thing driving the purchase price up is the demand (you try and buy a second hand one!).
ReplyDeleteRange anxiety is something that fades once you’ve got used to thinking about your car slightly differently. After all your car will be ‘full’ every night, rather than only when you visit a petrol station, and the average UK journey is 22 miles. Home chargers are available on street, in allocated parking, in supermarkets and many other locations. There is more than you think. From real experience the area that needs more investment, is repairs to chargers that break- they are not quick to fix sometimes which can catch out people on regular journeys.
We don’t need to put all our eggs in one basket. We still have nuclear and gas stations can be on standby.
The power outages have been due to climate change and are only more likely if we don’t transition to clean energy.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2022/01/06/clean-energy-infrastructure-california-senate-bill-833-power-outages/?amp
All Electric vehicles in the USA cause at least 15 % More CO2 to be burned thal all gas powered cars or trucks size for size. There is no such thing as 'Emissions Free' . . . That is an outright, bold faced LIE !
ReplyDeleteOHM'S Law has been ignored . . . What goes into producing Electricity has been ignored . . . ALL Electricity Poisons Planet Earth . . .
https://www.academia.edu/62574334/Tesla_Versus_Toyota_Camry
https://www.academia.edu/64085546/Electric_Cars_The_Untold_Story_
https://www.academia.edu/52039545/All_Electricity_Poisons_Planet_Earth
I hope you read these papers and add your comments . . .
Hi Jim, I think you’d better check your sources for those calculations - 28% is not lost as heat among other things. There are plenty of other more accurate calculations out there, have a look and save yourself some time.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change
https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth1
Sorry Mr. walker, this is good and real and verifiable research . . . Quite rite !
ReplyDeleteBoth missed transmission losses and charging losses that represent at least 28 % of produced Electricity being lost as heat.
My mathematical calculations and My Sources are there for you to verify If you chose . . .
Or you can continue riding the wave of propaganda that glosses over ALL the REAL costs of producing transmitting and charging Electric Cars . . . Free country . . . Your choice.
Here is an older paper that got me started in all of this
https://www.academia.edu/49057069/Electric_Cars_Burn_31_More_Energy_than_Gas_Cars
My Thoughts . . .
Transmission losses are 2%, not 28%, at least in the UK they are and this blog is in and about the UK. If USA networks have 28% losses, you’re doing it wrong.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/electricity-transmission/document/135126/download
Also, while your calcs include generation inefficiencies, your combustion engine vehicle calc includes no losses for fuel production and transportation. Hardly unbiased that!
Mr. Walker I am an Environmentalist. But please verify MY sources Before you reply.
ReplyDelete·1-2% – Step-up transformer from generator to Transmission line
.2-4% – Transmission line
·1-2% – Step-down transformer from Transmission line to Distribution network
·4-6% – Distribution network transformers and cables.
The overall losses between the power plant and consumers are then in the range between 8 and 15%.
This data comes from Power Plant Operators . . . not from someone who has done a cursory look.
I have spent the last 15 years doing independent research on the Environment. I am a Staunch Environmentalist. Yet my views are somewhat counterintuitive. I am anti-propaganda. It's our job, collectively, to eradicate pollution, Globally, not just from our own back yard. I dig down sometimes where it hurts the establishment. Honesty means taking the counterintuitive view, even if that crosses swords with established thinking. Saving the planet from all of man's destruction must remain - Goal One. As an Adamant Naturalist, I disassociate from both Climate Change Deniers and the Environmentalist Collective. False and deceptive activism is prevalent in both camps - An evolved, contemporary, Scientific perspective must rule.
Electric Cars Poison the planet MORE than Gas Cars . . . Just NOT where you drive them !
ALL Energy production and consumption is POISON to Planet Earth Pick your Poison . . .
I am waiting for something to come from the fringes of science that will produce electricity efficiently in our homes or in our cars . . . Until then . . . We are just shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic hoping the ship won't sink . . .
Current technology All forms of energy are bad . . .
OH re input costs . . . Wind turbines are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1,688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1,300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel (14.5 % Global CO2 is from concrete and steel), 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium- Boron, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades.
Believe me I have facts about input costs . . . Just ask . . .
My Thoughts . . .
I’m an Electrical Engineer. Your data on electrical losses is simply not correct. I’ve already sent you a link to the evidence from the operator as reported to the British Government.
ReplyDeleteYou still haven’t addressed the equivalent ‘transmission’ cost of petrol and diesel, i.e. fuel lorries and petrol stations.
Mr. Walker
ReplyDeleteYou are a very good debater, I will give you that.
What about the power lines made of Aluminum. Or the transmission towers made of steel produced in China with Coking coal from Canada shipped to China. Did you consider that ships burn 'Bunker Sea Fuel that is the crap left over from making Jet fuel, gasoline and diesel. Did you consider that 3 . . . 3 container ships put more Sulphur dioxide into the environment every day than all the cars and trucks in North America . . . Every Day.
No . . . Mr. walker you are a good man who wants to believe you can be a part of the solution by advocating 'Positive Change'.
However at the risk of repeating myself . . . ALL Energy Production poisons Planet Earth. My goal is to point out how wrong environmentalist Propaganda is. I live in a common sense world. I have been reasonably well educated. I have even been patented a couple of times. I have a 'grass roots' understanding of how things work, Hands On. I resent ALL Propaganda ! Even when it comes from good and well intentioned sources.
My thoughts . . .
The power lines and infrastructure already exist though, don’t they? So the net carbon cost of them is zero…
ReplyDelete
ReplyDeleteAll input costs from All sources of energy end up 'Net Zero' in that case. Not at all true. Wind farms or solar . . . No new infrastructure . . . come on . . . magically this electricity is going to jump through the air. see image page #6 . . . fascinating to me how everybody misses the fact that 16 % of the energy being produced will be wasted by the electrons inside the Electric Car Battery before the 'draw down' ever begins. Common sense and basic science so easily get over looked. It would be cheaper, environmentally to put that diesel engine in that car and drive it around . . .
https://www.academia.edu/49057069/Electric_Cars_Burn_31_More_Energy_than_Gas_Cars
Please read my research . . . It will NOT bite . . . maybe you are just happy with what you believe and you don't want to think that you have been deluded by all the "Experts" you have come to respect ??
My thoughts . . .
Common sense Mr. walker is a tried and true revaluation today as always
My thoughts
I have looked at your links and it doesn’t stack up.
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